Author Topic: The former Cafe Hines/Cafe Fuzion  (Read 2322 times)

Offline georgian

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Re: The former Cafe Hines/Cafe Fuzion
« Reply #15 on: November 08, 2016, 09:04 am »
They don't perform the cleaning on the premises.  The only clean-up would be removing the stale incense odors.



it looks like there are drycleaning vents through the roof and a solvent tank outside the building. If that's the case, it would indicate that dycleaning was taking place there at some point in the past. Most environmental problems at drycleaners stem from activities that took place decades ago; we didn't know how bad the stuff was (it was cheap though!), laws were lax, and handlers were often careless.. Unfortunately, it only takes a relatively small amount of PCE/TCE for there to be a problem that persists in soil and groundwater for decades.
So...that explains the two-headed rats in the adjacent woods!

Offline hfranks

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Re: The former Cafe Hines/Cafe Fuzion
« Reply #16 on: November 08, 2016, 09:35 am »
They don't perform the cleaning on the premises.  The only clean-up would be removing the stale incense odors.



it looks like there are drycleaning vents through the roof and a solvent tank outside the building. If that's the case, it would indicate that dycleaning was taking place there at some point in the past. Most environmental problems at drycleaners stem from activities that took place decades ago; we didn't know how bad the stuff was (it was cheap though!), laws were lax, and handlers were often careless.. Unfortunately, it only takes a relatively small amount of PCE/TCE for there to be a problem that persists in soil and groundwater for decades.
That business doesn't even have running water.
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Offline mongo

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Re: The former Cafe Hines/Cafe Fuzion
« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2016, 11:31 am »
So does that mean renovating and retrofitting the current building, or tearing the whole thing down and building something new?

Yes, the cleaners owns their own building also.  I was not aware that Soba was able to purchase their building. They had been renting it for the longest time but I guess David and Scotty must have sold out when they sold the Flatiron building to Flatiron. There was talk about building apartments above but I don't think they are going that route whether because of zoning or permitting or money or whatever, I think it's now just going to be one level businesses.
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Offline jcarp

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Re: The former Cafe Hines/Cafe Fuzion
« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2016, 11:55 am »
That business doesn't even have running water.

[Edit for clarity]:
I totally believe that they are not drycleaning there. I'm saying that it appears that there once was drycleaning there, which is all that matters for potential environmental liabilities.

I think you may feel like I'm arguing with you? I'm not and I'm sorry if I've given that impression. Everything we've both said is likely true.  I just happen to know a good bit about GA environmental law that I thought would be relevant to the question of this property being redeveloped.

My point is that redeveloping that property may be more of a challenge than many investors want to take on. Furthermore, if there is an environmental assessment done (which will be required by any lender making a loan for the property), results for anything that is found above (very low) screening levels will have to be sent to the GA Environmental Protection Division, which could put the current owners on the hook for remediation of soil and groundwater ($$$). In other words, the owners have incentives to never sell unless a savvy investor with resources to study and (if needed) remediate property through EPD's Brownfield program were to come along. This cuts the pool of potential investors down tremendously. On the other hand, the owners could also find someone that will pay cash and not have the sense to realize the liability they may be buying. I'm sure such people exist, but there can't be that many of them.

So...that explains the two-headed rats in the adjacent woods!

Well.... probably not. But the population of two headed rats may have an increased prevalence of cancer if they've spent much time in the soil around the Nabors building.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2016, 02:29 pm by jcarp »

Offline vigodas-pants

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Re: The former Cafe Hines/Cafe Fuzion
« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2016, 12:01 pm »
That business doesn't even have running water.

I think you may feel like I'm arguing with you? I'm not and I'm sorry if I've given that impression. Everything we've both said is likely true. I just happen to know a good bit about GA environmental law that I thought would be relevant to the question of this property being redeveloped. 

My point is that redeveloping that property may be more of a challenge than many investors want to take on. Furthermore, if there is an environmental assessment done (which will be required by any lender making a loan for the property), results for anything that is found above (very low) screening levels will have to be sent to the GA Environmental Protection Division, which could put the current owners on the hook for remediation of soil and groundwater ($$$). In other words, the owners have incentives to never sell unless a savvy investor with resources to study and (if needed) remediate property through EPD's Brownfield program were to come along. This cuts the pool of potential investors down tremendously. On the other hand, the owners could also find someone that will pay cash and not have the sense to realize the liability they may be buying. I'm sure such people exist, but there can't be that many of them.

So...that explains the two-headed rats in the adjacent woods!

Well.... probably not. But the population of two headed rats probably will likely have an increased prevalence of cancer if they've spent much time in the soil around the Nabors building.

My understanding is that the cleaners does not clean onsite - they ship all of their cleaning out.  Have they ever actually cleaned onsite (assuming so based on some of the posts).
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Offline Cap'n Ken

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Re: The former Cafe Hines/Cafe Fuzion
« Reply #20 on: November 10, 2016, 03:39 pm »
So does that mean renovating and retrofitting the current building, or tearing the whole thing down and building something new?

Yes, the cleaners owns their own building also.  I was not aware that Soba was able to purchase their building. They had been renting it for the longest time but I guess David and Scotty must have sold out when they sold the Flatiron building to Flatiron. There was talk about building apartments above but I don't think they are going that route whether because of zoning or permitting or money or whatever, I think it's now just going to be one level businesses.

Especially if they bought the lot between the Fuzion stuff and the cleaners / Soba (which Janet also owns/owned), I'd guess they'd build something from scratch - either now or down the road. It's a funky alignment of buildings  and parking there, and I can't imagine those buildings are in great shape. Or did the city ever take any action on that zoning update idea where they'd exclude older buildings from parking requirements (doubt it)?
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