Author Topic: Plumbing question  (Read 1174 times)

Online mellamur

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Plumbing question
« on: February 15, 2012, 12:04 pm »
Figured I would ask here to see if anyone has had this happen or knows wtf is going on in my house. Our hot water (in showers and sinks) used to be hot enough to scald you. For the last couple of months it's been just warm enough to be tolerable in the shower and will still scald you if you're using the kitchen sink or washer. 2 weeks ago the downstairs shower wouldn't turn off. Someone came to fix it but now it's backwards (cold = hot and vice versa...damn home warranty schmucks) which is probably unrelated but annoying nonetheless.

At first I thought maybe the not so hot shower was related to the cold temperatures and distance from water heater to shower...but if that's the case I shouldn't be getting scalded downstairs at the sink while the downstairs shower is luke warm. Are there different pipes to different outlets? Why else would this be happening?

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Re: Plumbing question
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2012, 12:13 pm »
Figured I would ask here to see if anyone has had this happen or knows wtf is going on in my house. Our hot water (in showers and sinks) used to be hot enough to scald you. For the last couple of months it's been just warm enough to be tolerable in the shower and will still scald you if you're using the kitchen sink or washer. 2 weeks ago the downstairs shower wouldn't turn off. Someone came to fix it but now it's backwards (cold = hot and vice versa...damn home warranty schmucks) which is probably unrelated but annoying nonetheless.

At first I thought maybe the not so hot shower was related to the cold temperatures and distance from water heater to shower...but if that's the case I shouldn't be getting scalded downstairs at the sink while the downstairs shower is luke warm. Are there different pipes to different outlets? Why else would this be happening?

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Online mellamur

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Re: Plumbing question
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2012, 12:17 pm »
Figured I would ask here to see if anyone has had this happen or knows wtf is going on in my house. Our hot water (in showers and sinks) used to be hot enough to scald you. For the last couple of months it's been just warm enough to be tolerable in the shower and will still scald you if you're using the kitchen sink or washer. 2 weeks ago the downstairs shower wouldn't turn off. Someone came to fix it but now it's backwards (cold = hot and vice versa...damn home warranty schmucks) which is probably unrelated but annoying nonetheless.

At first I thought maybe the not so hot shower was related to the cold temperatures and distance from water heater to shower...but if that's the case I shouldn't be getting scalded downstairs at the sink while the downstairs shower is luke warm. Are there different pipes to different outlets? Why else would this be happening?

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Offline dsnation

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Re: Plumbing question
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2012, 12:57 pm »
Figured I would ask here to see if anyone has had this happen or knows wtf is going on in my house. Our hot water (in showers and sinks) used to be hot enough to scald you. For the last couple of months it's been just warm enough to be tolerable in the shower and will still scald you if you're using the kitchen sink or washer. 2 weeks ago the downstairs shower wouldn't turn off. Someone came to fix it but now it's backwards (cold = hot and vice versa...damn home warranty schmucks) which is probably unrelated but annoying nonetheless.

At first I thought maybe the not so hot shower was related to the cold temperatures and distance from water heater to shower...but if that's the case I shouldn't be getting scalded downstairs at the sink while the downstairs shower is luke warm. Are there different pipes to different outlets? Why else would this be happening?

Couple of thoughts.  1) you could have an element out in an electric tank.  Typically, all of your water would only be lukewarm, but it's possible that the shower uses a larger pipe that's drawing down the hot water faster.  Have you noticed a large increase in your power bill?  2) your pipes to the shower might not be sufficiently insulated, while the others are. 

When you say it'll scald you, do you mean if you use them at the same time or that the water out of the other faucets is really hot while the shower is lukewarm?

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Re: Plumbing question
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2012, 02:54 pm »


Couple of thoughts.  1) you could have an element out in an electric tank.  Typically, all of your water would only be lukewarm, but it's possible that the shower uses a larger pipe that's drawing down the hot water faster.  Have you noticed a large increase in your power bill?  2) your pipes to the shower might not be sufficiently insulated, while the others are. 

When you say it'll scald you, do you mean if you use them at the same time or that the water out of the other faucets is really hot while the shower is lukewarm?
1) I think the tank is gas...though honestly I have no idea. Last night Mr. Mellamur turned the temperature up but that didn't seem to do any good. Power bill, it's higher but not significantly so. Though we've only lived here since October so I could be wrong about what's significant.
2) Exactly - water in the kitchen sink is so hot I can't put my hand in it. Water in the shower (in the bathroom off the kitchen) is tepid.

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Re: Plumbing question
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2012, 03:00 pm »


Couple of thoughts.  1) you could have an element out in an electric tank.  Typically, all of your water would only be lukewarm, but it's possible that the shower uses a larger pipe that's drawing down the hot water faster.  Have you noticed a large increase in your power bill?  2) your pipes to the shower might not be sufficiently insulated, while the others are. 
When you say it'll scald you, do you mean if you use them at the same time or that the water out of the other faucets is really hot while the shower is lukewarm?
1) I think the tank is gas...though honestly I have no idea. Last night Mr. Mellamur turned the temperature up but that didn't seem to do any good. Power bill, it's higher but not significantly so. Though we've only lived here since October so I could be wrong about what's significant.
2) Exactly - water in the kitchen sink is so hot I can't put my hand in it. Water in the shower (in the bathroom off the kitchen) is tepid.

I would think that even if they are not adequately insulated, after running full-hot for a while it would come out hot simply because it heated the pipes enough.  Seems like it would have to have a VERY long run to lose that much heat.  I wonder if it's a problem with the mixing valve, letting too much cold water in.

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Re: Plumbing question
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2012, 03:04 pm »


Couple of thoughts.  1) you could have an element out in an electric tank.  Typically, all of your water would only be lukewarm, but it's possible that the shower uses a larger pipe that's drawing down the hot water faster.  Have you noticed a large increase in your power bill?  2) your pipes to the shower might not be sufficiently insulated, while the others are. 
When you say it'll scald you, do you mean if you use them at the same time or that the water out of the other faucets is really hot while the shower is lukewarm?
1) I think the tank is gas...though honestly I have no idea. Last night Mr. Mellamur turned the temperature up but that didn't seem to do any good. Power bill, it's higher but not significantly so. Though we've only lived here since October so I could be wrong about what's significant.
2) Exactly - water in the kitchen sink is so hot I can't put my hand in it. Water in the shower (in the bathroom off the kitchen) is tepid.

I would think that even if they are not adequately insulated, after running full-hot for a while it would come out hot simply because it heated the pipes enough.  Seems like it would have to have a VERY long run to lose that much heat.  I wonder if it's a problem with the mixing valve, letting too much cold water in.
Where's the mixing valve? Is it somewhere in the pipes or part of the water heater?

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Re: Plumbing question
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2012, 03:07 pm »
The mixer valve is the thing you turn in the shower to set how hot/cold you want the water.
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Re: Plumbing question
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2012, 03:08 pm »


Couple of thoughts.  1) you could have an element out in an electric tank.  Typically, all of your water would only be lukewarm, but it's possible that the shower uses a larger pipe that's drawing down the hot water faster.  Have you noticed a large increase in your power bill?  2) your pipes to the shower might not be sufficiently insulated, while the others are. 
When you say it'll scald you, do you mean if you use them at the same time or that the water out of the other faucets is really hot while the shower is lukewarm?
1) I think the tank is gas...though honestly I have no idea. Last night Mr. Mellamur turned the temperature up but that didn't seem to do any good. Power bill, it's higher but not significantly so. Though we've only lived here since October so I could be wrong about what's significant.
2) Exactly - water in the kitchen sink is so hot I can't put my hand in it. Water in the shower (in the bathroom off the kitchen) is tepid.

I would think that even if they are not adequately insulated, after running full-hot for a while it would come out hot simply because it heated the pipes enough.  Seems like it would have to have a VERY long run to lose that much heat.  I wonder if it's a problem with the mixing valve, letting too much cold water in.
Where's the mixing valve? Is it somewhere in the pipes or part of the water heater?

Part of your shower fixture...also called a thermostatic valve.  It's in the wall behind the handle you use to control the water flow.  I'm no plumber or engineer, though...so it's only a guess.

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Re: Plumbing question
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2012, 03:22 pm »


Couple of thoughts.  1) you could have an element out in an electric tank.  Typically, all of your water would only be lukewarm, but it's possible that the shower uses a larger pipe that's drawing down the hot water faster.  Have you noticed a large increase in your power bill?  2) your pipes to the shower might not be sufficiently insulated, while the others are. 
When you say it'll scald you, do you mean if you use them at the same time or that the water out of the other faucets is really hot while the shower is lukewarm?
1) I think the tank is gas...though honestly I have no idea. Last night Mr. Mellamur turned the temperature up but that didn't seem to do any good. Power bill, it's higher but not significantly so. Though we've only lived here since October so I could be wrong about what's significant.
2) Exactly - water in the kitchen sink is so hot I can't put my hand in it. Water in the shower (in the bathroom off the kitchen) is tepid.

I would think that even if they are not adequately insulated, after running full-hot for a while it would come out hot simply because it heated the pipes enough.  Seems like it would have to have a VERY long run to lose that much heat.  I wonder if it's a problem with the mixing valve, letting too much cold water in.
Where's the mixing valve? Is it somewhere in the pipes or part of the water heater?

Part of your shower fixture...also called a thermostatic valve.  It's in the wall behind the handle you use to control the water flow.  I'm no plumber or engineer, though...so it's only a guess.
Then I guess I need to take apart the faucet. This sounds like a job for HFranks!

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Re: Plumbing question
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2012, 03:30 pm »
Another question is 'How old is the hot water heater? Make sure it's under warranty with the manufacturer. If it's not the mixer valve, it could possibly be the hot water heater (the thermostat and heating element?)
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Re: Plumbing question
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2012, 03:34 pm »
Another question is 'How old is the hot water heater? Make sure it's under warranty with the manufacturer. If it's not the mixer valve, it could possibly be the hot water heater (the thermostat and heating element?)
It's 15 years old...it could be at the end of its life. I was just trying to exhaust other possibilities before calling the insurance company...again.

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Re: Plumbing question
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2012, 03:36 pm »
Another question is 'How old is the hot water heater? Make sure it's under warranty with the manufacturer. If it's not the mixer valve, it could possibly be the hot water heater (the thermostat and heating element?)
It's 15 years old...it could be at the end of its life. I was just trying to exhaust other possibilities before calling the insurance company...again.

you mean warranty - not insurance - right?  definitely not something you want to get your insurance company in on...

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Re: Plumbing question
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2012, 03:40 pm »


Couple of thoughts.  1) you could have an element out in an electric tank.  Typically, all of your water would only be lukewarm, but it's possible that the shower uses a larger pipe that's drawing down the hot water faster.  Have you noticed a large increase in your power bill?  2) your pipes to the shower might not be sufficiently insulated, while the others are. 
When you say it'll scald you, do you mean if you use them at the same time or that the water out of the other faucets is really hot while the shower is lukewarm?
1) I think the tank is gas...though honestly I have no idea. Last night Mr. Mellamur turned the temperature up but that didn't seem to do any good. Power bill, it's higher but not significantly so. Though we've only lived here since October so I could be wrong about what's significant.
2) Exactly - water in the kitchen sink is so hot I can't put my hand in it. Water in the shower (in the bathroom off the kitchen) is tepid.

I would think that even if they are not adequately insulated, after running full-hot for a while it would come out hot simply because it heated the pipes enough.  Seems like it would have to have a VERY long run to lose that much heat.  I wonder if it's a problem with the mixing valve, letting too much cold water in.
Where's the mixing valve? Is it somewhere in the pipes or part of the water heater?

Part of your shower fixture...also called a thermostatic valve.  It's in the wall behind the handle you use to control the water flow.  I'm no plumber or engineer, though...so it's only a guess.

If you have a single-valve shower, that's actually a pressure balance valve, not thermostatic, but could potentially be the problem.  If you're not getting enough pressure from your hot line, the valve will make it up with cold water, so it will never warm past a certain point.  If you do have a thermostatic shower, then you have one valve where you set the water's temperature, AND a second (usually smaller) handle that turns the water on and off.  If you do have that, then the cartridge in your valve is bad and isn't calibrating the water temp correctly anymore.

Either way, you need a plumber to get in your valve--usually the cover plate screws onto the rough inside the wall, so it's not too complicated to do that.  Depending on what the problem is though, you may be ordering a small replacement part, or an entirely new valve.  Either way, it's going to help you to know who makes your shower valve & trim (this is assuming it's the shower valve and not the heater, and I'm not a plumber either.  Just sold plumbing for many years).
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Re: Plumbing question
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2012, 03:55 pm »

If you have a single-valve shower, that's actually a pressure balance valve, not thermostatic, but could potentially be the problem.  If you're not getting enough pressure from your hot line, the valve will make it up with cold water, so it will never warm past a certain point.  If you do have a thermostatic shower, then you have one valve where you set the water's temperature, AND a second (usually smaller) handle that turns the water on and off.  If you do have that, then the cartridge in your valve is bad and isn't calibrating the water temp correctly anymore.

Either way, you need a plumber to get in your valve--usually the cover plate screws onto the rough inside the wall, so it's not too complicated to do that.  Depending on what the problem is though, you may be ordering a small replacement part, or an entirely new valve.  Either way, it's going to help you to know who makes your shower valve & trim (this is assuming it's the shower valve and not the heater, and I'm not a plumber either.  Just sold plumbing for many years).
We have a single shower fixture knob so I guess it's a thermostatic shower. We just had a plumber out last week (home warranty, not insurance. duh) to fix the downstairs shower because it wouldn't turn off.  He probably broke it. Though that wouldn't explain why the upstairs shower is cold, too, if it's a per fixture issue.

Thanks for everyone's wisdom.