Traffic Citation question(s)

[J. Grouchy]

Grouchy, if you are guilty then pay it. Arguing with them won't help. Unless, you are innocent then pay it!

Where, in any of my posts, did I say it was MY ticket? 

[dsnation]

With a few exceptions, you can pay CoA citations online.  They still tack on costs, which is horribly annoying. 

As for the geography issue, you're probably fighting a losing battle.  You can go on the ticket's return date, plead not guilty, and get the ticket set for a hearing.  The officer probably won't be at that first hearing.  At the second hearing, you can point out that the intersection doesn't exist and that the ticket is facially deficient and should be tossed because the officer is unreliable, etc.  You'll probably lose.  Certain issues, I think mostly dates & times, will void a ticket.  But generally, a citation is only a statement of probable cause where the officer saying "I inadvertently wrote 'drive' instead of 'blvd,' but I observed the offense at the time and location" will still result in a fine. 

I've never fought a citation, even when it was wrongful, mostly because it isn't worth the time to go down to municipal court twice and the issue will turn on credibility.  I'm an officer of the court and still suspect the judge would take the cop's word over mine even though we have the same duty of candor and honesty.

[J. Grouchy]

With a few exceptions, you can pay CoA citations online.  They still tack on costs, which is horribly annoying. 

As for the geography issue, you're probably fighting a losing battle.  You can go on the ticket's return date, plead not guilty, and get the ticket set for a hearing.  The officer probably won't be at that first hearing.  At the second hearing, you can point out that the intersection doesn't exist and that the ticket is facially deficient and should be tossed because the officer is unreliable, etc.  You'll probably lose.  Certain issues, I think mostly dates & times, will void a ticket.  But generally, a citation is only a statement of probable cause where the officer saying "I inadvertently wrote 'drive' instead of 'blvd,' but I observed the offense at the time and location" will still result in a fine. 

I've never fought a citation, even when it was wrongful, mostly because it isn't worth the time to go down to municipal court twice and the issue will turn on credibility.  I'm an officer of the court and still suspect the judge would take the cop's word over mine even though we have the same duty of candor and honesty.

Thanks, ds.  That's pretty much the answer I was expecting, but figured it was worth looking into in case there was actually something worth fighting.  It sounds like more of a 10% chance as opposed to 75%.

[dsnation]

With a few exceptions, you can pay CoA citations online.  They still tack on costs, which is horribly annoying. 

As for the geography issue, you're probably fighting a losing battle.  You can go on the ticket's return date, plead not guilty, and get the ticket set for a hearing.  The officer probably won't be at that first hearing.  At the second hearing, you can point out that the intersection doesn't exist and that the ticket is facially deficient and should be tossed because the officer is unreliable, etc.  You'll probably lose.  Certain issues, I think mostly dates & times, will void a ticket.  But generally, a citation is only a statement of probable cause where the officer saying "I inadvertently wrote 'drive' instead of 'blvd,' but I observed the offense at the time and location" will still result in a fine. 

I've never fought a citation, even when it was wrongful, mostly because it isn't worth the time to go down to municipal court twice and the issue will turn on credibility.  I'm an officer of the court and still suspect the judge would take the cop's word over mine even though we have the same duty of candor and honesty.

Thanks, ds.  That's pretty much the answer I was expecting, but figured it was worth looking into in case there was actually something worth fighting.  It sounds like more of a 10% chance as opposed to 75%.

Re-reading the thread, there's actually a 2nd answer that Simpson83 pointed to that could give you a hook to fight it (I believe).  I know BLVD & 2nd never cross, but if the ticket says "Drive" & 2nd, then that looks like it's out of the jurisdiction, which might be sufficient to have the ticket tossed at the arraignment hearing (the date on the ticket).  Just show up and say "Your honor, the ticket was issued outside of the officer's jurisdiction and should be dismissed.  I have a map of the city limits (preferably an official CoA map of some sort) and this intersection is outside of the city.  The officer had no jurisdiction to write the ticket and this court lacks jurisdiction over the alleged offense." 

/might work

[Gmoney]

With a few exceptions, you can pay CoA citations online.  They still tack on costs, which is horribly annoying. 

As for the geography issue, you're probably fighting a losing battle.  You can go on the ticket's return date, plead not guilty, and get the ticket set for a hearing.  The officer probably won't be at that first hearing.  At the second hearing, you can point out that the intersection doesn't exist and that the ticket is facially deficient and should be tossed because the officer is unreliable, etc.  You'll probably lose.  Certain issues, I think mostly dates & times, will void a ticket.  But generally, a citation is only a statement of probable cause where the officer saying "I inadvertently wrote 'drive' instead of 'blvd,' but I observed the offense at the time and location" will still result in a fine. 

I've never fought a citation, even when it was wrongful, mostly because it isn't worth the time to go down to municipal court twice and the issue will turn on credibility.  I'm an officer of the court and still suspect the judge would take the cop's word over mine even though we have the same duty of candor and honesty.

Thanks, ds.  That's pretty much the answer I was expecting, but figured it was worth looking into in case there was actually something worth fighting.  It sounds like more of a 10% chance as opposed to 75%.

Re-reading the thread, there's actually a 2nd answer that Simpson83 pointed to that could give you a hook to fight it (I believe).  I know BLVD & 2nd never cross, but if the ticket says "Drive" & 2nd, then that looks like it's out of the jurisdiction, which might be sufficient to have the ticket tossed at the arraignment hearing (the date on the ticket).  Just show up and say "Your honor, the ticket was issued outside of the officer's jurisdiction and should be dismissed.  I have a map of the city limits (preferably an official CoA map of some sort) and this intersection is outside of the city.  The officer had no jurisdiction to write the ticket and this court lacks jurisdiction over the alleged offense." 

/might work

Along the same lines, if the citation is ambiguous (just says East Lake and not Blvd or Drive) the choices are that the infraction occurred either at an intersection that does not exist or at an intersection that is not inside their jurisdiction.  Either should probably help your case.

[J. Grouchy]

With a few exceptions, you can pay CoA citations online.  They still tack on costs, which is horribly annoying. 

As for the geography issue, you're probably fighting a losing battle.  You can go on the ticket's return date, plead not guilty, and get the ticket set for a hearing.  The officer probably won't be at that first hearing.  At the second hearing, you can point out that the intersection doesn't exist and that the ticket is facially deficient and should be tossed because the officer is unreliable, etc.  You'll probably lose.  Certain issues, I think mostly dates & times, will void a ticket.  But generally, a citation is only a statement of probable cause where the officer saying "I inadvertently wrote 'drive' instead of 'blvd,' but I observed the offense at the time and location" will still result in a fine. 

I've never fought a citation, even when it was wrongful, mostly because it isn't worth the time to go down to municipal court twice and the issue will turn on credibility.  I'm an officer of the court and still suspect the judge would take the cop's word over mine even though we have the same duty of candor and honesty.

Thanks, ds.  That's pretty much the answer I was expecting, but figured it was worth looking into in case there was actually something worth fighting.  It sounds like more of a 10% chance as opposed to 75%.

Re-reading the thread, there's actually a 2nd answer that Simpson83 pointed to that could give you a hook to fight it (I believe).  I know BLVD & 2nd never cross, but if the ticket says "Drive" & 2nd, then that looks like it's out of the jurisdiction, which might be sufficient to have the ticket tossed at the arraignment hearing (the date on the ticket).  Just show up and say "Your honor, the ticket was issued outside of the officer's jurisdiction and should be dismissed.  I have a map of the city limits (preferably an official CoA map of some sort) and this intersection is outside of the city.  The officer had no jurisdiction to write the ticket and this court lacks jurisdiction over the alleged offense." 

/might work

Along the same lines, if the citation is ambiguous (just says East Lake and not Blvd or Drive) the choices are that the infraction occurred either at an intersection that does not exist or at an intersection that is not inside their jurisdiction.  Either should probably help your case.

That IS exactly the case, actually.  Doesn't say either Blvd or Dr.   Just so happens I know where this DID occur, which is why I argued the intersection point with hfranks. If in court, would the defendant be obliged to state anything beyond that? 

"the choices are that the infraction occurred either at an intersection that does not exist or at an intersection that is not inside their jurisdiction"

Anyway...would someone still be laughed out of court for bringing that up?

[dsnation]

Along the same lines, if the citation is ambiguous (just says East Lake and not Blvd or Drive) the choices are that the infraction occurred either at an intersection that does not exist or at an intersection that is not inside their jurisdiction.  Either should probably help your case.

That IS exactly the case, actually.  Doesn't say either Blvd or Dr.   If in court, would the defendant be obliged to state anything beyond that? 

"the choices are that the infraction occurred either at an intersection that does not exist or at an intersection that is not inside their jurisdiction"

Anyway...would someone still be laughed out of court for bringing that up?

You wouldn't get laughed at.  What you want to argue is that the only intersection of those roads is outside of the jurisdiction.  When I initially wrote, I thought they were both in CoA, in which case it wouldn't really matter.  If the face of the ticket shows a location outside of the Court's jurisdiction, then you can probably have the ticket tossed on that ground alone.  I wouldn't even bother with the "either or" because it invites the judge to say "well, you were there, which one was it?"  [they're not supposed to ask, but I don't put a lot of stock in municipal court judges]

[J. Grouchy]

Along the same lines, if the citation is ambiguous (just says East Lake and not Blvd or Drive) the choices are that the infraction occurred either at an intersection that does not exist or at an intersection that is not inside their jurisdiction.  Either should probably help your case.

That IS exactly the case, actually.  Doesn't say either Blvd or Dr.   If in court, would the defendant be obliged to state anything beyond that? 

"the choices are that the infraction occurred either at an intersection that does not exist or at an intersection that is not inside their jurisdiction"

Anyway...would someone still be laughed out of court for bringing that up?

You wouldn't get laughed at.  What you want to argue is that the only intersection of those roads is outside of the jurisdiction.  When I initially wrote, I thought they were both in CoA, in which case it wouldn't really matter.  If the face of the ticket shows a location outside of the Court's jurisdiction, then you can probably have the ticket tossed on that ground alone.  I wouldn't even bother with the "either or" because it invites the judge to say "well, you were there, which one was it?"  [they're not supposed to ask, but I don't put a lot of stock in municipal court judges]

Okay, so fill in the rest of the conversation here, from the defendant's perspective:

Defendant: According to the officer's citation, the violation occurred at the intersection of East Lake and 2nd Avenue.  The only intersection of East Lake and 2nd is outside the Atlanta city limits.
Judge: Well, where were you at the time this violation occurred?
Defendant: ________________
Judge: Did you violate code [xxxxx] as stated on the citation?
Defendant: ________________

Can the judge ask those questions?  How should the defendant respond (regardless of guilt or innocence)?

[mbmcloughlin]

This is City of Atlanta
It states the intersection of East Lake & 2nd Avenue...but those two roads do not intersect.

You can send me a PM. I would recommend the person who received the ticket appear and potentially avoid points.

[dsnation]

Along the same lines, if the citation is ambiguous (just says East Lake and not Blvd or Drive) the choices are that the infraction occurred either at an intersection that does not exist or at an intersection that is not inside their jurisdiction.  Either should probably help your case.

That IS exactly the case, actually.  Doesn't say either Blvd or Dr.   If in court, would the defendant be obliged to state anything beyond that? 

"the choices are that the infraction occurred either at an intersection that does not exist or at an intersection that is not inside their jurisdiction"

Anyway...would someone still be laughed out of court for bringing that up?

You wouldn't get laughed at.  What you want to argue is that the only intersection of those roads is outside of the jurisdiction.  When I initially wrote, I thought they were both in CoA, in which case it wouldn't really matter.  If the face of the ticket shows a location outside of the Court's jurisdiction, then you can probably have the ticket tossed on that ground alone.  I wouldn't even bother with the "either or" because it invites the judge to say "well, you were there, which one was it?"  [they're not supposed to ask, but I don't put a lot of stock in municipal court judges]

Okay, so fill in the rest of the conversation here, from the defendant's perspective:

Defendant: According to the officer's citation, the violation occurred at the intersection of East Lake and 2nd Avenue.  The only intersection of East Lake and 2nd is outside the Atlanta city limits.
Judge: Well, where were you at the time this violation occurred?
Defendant: ________________
Judge: Did you violate code [xxxxx] as stated on the citation?
Defendant: ________________

Can the judge ask those questions?  How should the defendant respond (regardless of guilt or innocence)?

The judge shouldn't, but might.  The defendant should never mislead the court.  If the judge says anything like that, the best response is something along the lines of "Regardless of the violation your honor, the citation is for a location outside of the jurisdiction of the court."

[MRice]

I agree with Denise. If whoever got the ticket is guilty of a crime, they should just pay the fine.

[mongo]

Thanks for the positive feedback guys! It is much appreciated!

This is Alex, and I am indeed a local attorney, dues paying EACA member, and EAV resident and homeowner since 2007.  I know some of you on here personally, but for those of you who don't know me, my firm was one of the sponsors of last year's East Atlanta Beer Festival, and at some point i would love to relocate my office into the village itself.

I regularly represent people for traffic citations (and more serious matters) in courts all across the metro area, so if I can ever be of service to any of you, please don't hesitate to call or email.  For most cases, I don't charge for an initial telephone consultation, so please feel free to give me a call if you or a friend,  or family member are ever in need of an attorney.  Even if it is an area of law that I don't practice and can't handle it myself, I am very involved in the State Bar and several other professional organizations so I know lawyers who practice just about every kind of law imaginable, so I am happy to give you a referral to someone with expertise in the area you need.

My contact info is as follows:

R. Alexander Susor, Esq.
The Law Offices of Alex Susor, P.C.
1270 Caroline Street, Suite D120 - 325
Atlanta, Georgia 30307
E-Mail: alex@alexsusor.com
Phone: (404) 939-0760
Fax: (404) 492-7086
http://www.alexsusor.com/

Thanks.  AND NOW BACK TO CHAZZ...

Alex

Not sure about question A.

Re: Question B--I think it depends on the city/county.  City of Atlanta made me go to the courthouse.  Dekalb county could pay over the phone. 

I would suggest having a phone consultation with Alex Susor, Esq.  He talked me through my options re: ticket for passing a school bus.  He's local, smart, and worth a phone call (IMHO).  http://www.alexsusor.com/

You can pay Dekalb online. I just did a week or two back but it took a really long time to show up in their system.
+1 for Alex. He's awesome.

[GEO]

did police officer put a secret codes on ticket like a happy face or a sad face ? Look at link then you will understand
why I asked ..

Cops & Judges Caught Using Secret Codes On Tickets

[angryuser]

did police officer put a secret codes on ticket like a happy face or a sad face ? Look at link then you will understand
why I asked ..

Cops & Judges Caught Using Secret Codes On Tickets

Oh look, cops (and (some) judges) doing shitty things in Broward/Dade county Florida. In other news, I hear the sky will also be blue today.

[Andreas]

did police officer put a secret codes on ticket like a happy face or a sad face ? Look at link then you will understand
why I asked ..

Cops & Judges Caught Using Secret Codes On Tickets

Oh look, cops (and (some) judges) doing shitty things in Broward/Dade county Florida. In other news, I hear the sky will also be blue today.

It sure doesn't appear to be blue from where I'm sitting.