Occupy Wall Street

[Cap'n Ken]

Here's a good summation of the motives of the movement (not so sure those have been communicated very well by the Atlanta branch): http://current.com/shows/countdown/videos/special-comment-keith-reads-first-collective-statement-of-occupy-wall-street

Here's the transcript if you can't stand to listen to that guy from ESPN talk - I think I might prefer the double-talk human megaphone thing.

"As we gather together in solidarity to express a feeling of mass injustice we must not lose sight of what brought us together. We write so that all people who feel wronged by the corporate forces of the world can know that we are your allies. As one people, united, we acknowledge the reality that the future of the human race requires the cooperation of its members. That our system must protect our rights, and upon corruption of that system, it is up to the individuals to protect their own rights, and those of their neighbors. That a democratic government derives its just power from the people, but corporations do not seek consent to extract wealth from the people, and the Earth, and that no true democracy is attainable when the process is determined by economic power.

We come to you at a time when corporations -- which place profit over people, self-interest over justice, and oppression over equality -- run our governments. We have peaceably assembled here as is our right to let these facts be known.

They have taken our houses through an illegal foreclosure process, despite not having the original mortgage.

They have taken bailouts from taxpayers with impunity, and continue to give executives exorbitant bonuses.

They have perpetuated inequality and discrimination in workplaces based on age, the color of one's skin, sex, gender identity, and sexual orientation.

They have poisoned the food supply through negligence, and undermined the farming system through monopolization.

They have profited off the torture, confinement, and cruel treatment of countless animals, and actively hide these practices.

They have continuously sought to strip employees of the right to negotiate for better pay and safer working conditions.

They have held students hostage with tens of thousands of dollars of debt on education, which is, itself, a human right.

They have consistently outsourced labor and used that outsourcing as leverage to cut worker's health care and pay.

They have influenced the courts to achieve the same rights as people with none of the culpability or responsibility.

They have spent millions of dollars on legal teams, but look for ways to get them out of contracts in regards to health insurance.

They have sold our privacy as a commodity.

They have used the military and police force to prevent freedom of the press.

They have deliberately declined to recall faulty products, endangering lives in pursuit of profit.

They determine economic policy despite the catastrophic failures their policies have produced and continue to produce.

They have donated large sums of money to politicians, who are responsible for regulating them.

They continue to block alternate forms of energy to keep us dependent on oil.

They continue to block generic forms of medicine that could save people's lives, or provide relief in order to protect investments that have

already turned a substantial profit.

They have purposely covered up oil spills, accidents, faulty bookkeeping, and inactive ingredients in pursuit of profit.

They purposefully kept people misinformed and fearful through their control of the media.

They have accepted private contracts to murder prisoners, even when presented with serious doubts about their guilt.

They have perpetuated colonialism at home and abroad.

They have participated in the torture and murder of innocent civilians overseas.

They continue to create weapons of mass destruction in order to receive government contracts.

To the people of the world,

We, the New York City general assembly occupying Wall Street in Liberty Square, urge you to assert your power.

Exercise your right to peaceably assemble, occupy public space, create a process to address the problems we face, and generate solutions accessible to everyone.

To all communities that take action and form groups in the spirit of direct democracy, we offer support, documentation, and all of the resources at our disposal.

Join us and make your voices heard."

And, gee, where to begin with that? I don't suppose you have to agree with every one of those ridiculous line items to buy this idea that "corporations run our government".

But the plan to this point is to "peaceably assemble" and "occupy public space" and from that create some unidentified process to address undefined problems and then finally generate some set of solutions "accessible" to everyone. Yeah ... ok.

Notwithstanding the lack of any goal other than getting together in public spaces right now, is it fair to say this "movement" is essentially an anti-capitalist one?

[DrPhilPhreak4Jesus69420]

As we currently define and have a "capitalist society", then yes.  I'd think we (The Occupiers) would all agree with that.  I don't think that most people (99.9999%) would agree with my personal endgame, but it's not about that.
Step One: Get things percolating.  Get the message out there that this ain't working, what we've been doing up til now.

[meltco]

I don't think the movement is necessarily anti-capitalist. Seems to be more about opposing the crimes committed by big business in the name of capitalism, and the subsequent government cover-ups/bail-outs/circle jerks. There's definitely some overlap with the views of the Tea Party, but the #occupy movement seems to be less politically polarized.

There's an easy way to tell whether you agree with the views of the #occupy movement. Do you think there is currently a lot of corruption in business and government? If you answered "yes," you may be an #occupier.

[Flower Lady]

circle jerks

Meltco, you are a genius. Someone should get the Circle Jerks back together to play a reunion show at an Occupy somewhere...

[Cap'n Ken]

As we currently define and have a "capitalist society", then yes.  I'd think we (The Occupiers) would all agree with that.  I don't think that most people (99.9999%) would agree with my personal endgame, but it's not about that.
Step One: Get things percolating.  Get the message out there that this ain't working, what we've been doing up til now.

I think you probably understand this, but a non "capitalist" society (I suppose that would mean a communist or socialist one) is pretty much a non-starter in the political process. That sort of is the heart of the unanswerable question - is this movement something that is a radical fringe anti-capitalism one, or one that stands a chance of becoming a viable political movement?

[Cap'n Ken]

I don't think the movement is necessarily anti-capitalist. Seems to be more about opposing the crimes committed by big business in the name of capitalism, and the subsequent government cover-ups/bail-outs/circle jerks. There's definitely some overlap with the views of the Tea Party, but the #occupy movement seems to be less politically polarized.

There's an easy way to tell whether you agree with the views of the #occupy movement. Do you think there is currently a lot of corruption in business and government? If you answered "yes," you may be an #occupier.

Why do you say the Occupy movement seems less politically polarized? I've only ever looked into Tea Party politics on a real superficial level (because the touted heroes are people like Sarah Palin and I figure that's all I need to know), but I figure them to be pretty much right-wing types. The Occupy movement from what I have seen seems pretty much left-wing types. But again, a superficial observation - which is sort of obvious since it's so early on.

Your last statement - I couldn't disagree with you more there. I think there is a lot of corruption in business and government. I think it's always been that way and always will be that way. Money and power corrupt. Show me an economic / political system that did or does not have a lot of corruption. But that doesn't mean I think there is necessarily a need for radical change. And if you want to say Occupy isn't about "radical" change - look at the list of allegations or whatever and extrapolate those out into systemic change before you go there.

What I see from this "movement" is a desire to lay blame for all societal ills at the feet of business and government and a desire to eliminate the money and power structure we currently have for some undetermined alternative. I'm not down with that.

So you can think there is currently a lot of corruption in business and government and not agree with the views of the Occupy movement or be an Occupier.

[DrPhilPhreak4Jesus69420]

I think you probably understand this, but a non "capitalist" society (I suppose that would mean a communist or socialist one) is pretty much a non-starter in the political process. That sort of is the heart of the unanswerable question - is this movement something that is a radical fringe anti-capitalism one, or one that stands a chance of becoming a viable political movement?

If there are only those two options, then for me it's just radical fringe.  And that's the way I like it.  In my mind a "viable political movement" is not capable of the reform that is needed.  That's part of the motivation, that out current political system is only interested in maintaining the status quo.

[Cap'n Ken]

I think you probably understand this, but a non "capitalist" society (I suppose that would mean a communist or socialist one) is pretty much a non-starter in the political process. That sort of is the heart of the unanswerable question - is this movement something that is a radical fringe anti-capitalism one, or one that stands a chance of becoming a viable political movement?

If there are only those two options, then for me it's just radical fringe.  And that's the way I like it.  In my mind a "viable political movement" is not capable of the reform that is needed.  That's part of the motivation, that out current political system is only interested in maintaining the status quo.

Right. But it seems like the Occupy people are trying hard to make the "movement" seem pretty mainstream ("the other 99%" and whatnot) even though looking objectively it seems like their aims are much more radical and along the lines of your thinking. I understand why they would not want to be seen as anti-capitalist, "communist" and all that - ultimately any political movement seeks power over all else, and power only comes with some measure of mainstream support.

[Flower Lady]

It's not like trying to appeal to the mainstream is unique, at all. The Tea Party have done that kind of thing. I think what the Occupiers are going for is the "we may think differently, but we are really no different than you" aspect. Are they seeking power, or seeking to REDUCE power?

[54 Pontiac]

I think you probably understand this, but a non "capitalist" society (I suppose that would mean a communist or socialist one) is pretty much a non-starter in the political process. That sort of is the heart of the unanswerable question - is this movement something that is a radical fringe anti-capitalism one, or one that stands a chance of becoming a viable political movement?

If there are only those two options, then for me it's just radical fringe.  And that's the way I like it.  In my mind a "viable political movement" is not capable of the reform that is needed.  That's part of the motivation, that out current political system is only interested in maintaining the status quo.

Right. But it seems like the Occupy people are trying hard to make the "movement" seem pretty mainstream ("the other 99%" and whatnot) even though looking objectively it seems like their aims are much more radical and along the lines of your thinking. I understand why they would not want to be seen as anti-capitalist, "communist" and all that - ultimately any political movement seeks power over all else, and power only comes with some measure of mainstream support.

At this point, it seems kind of Anarchist to me, which also does not seem like a viable alternative. I am way down with the corporate takeover of government, however. It was not that long ago that the campaign finance reform was McCain's big issue. Hard to make politicians turn off the spigot themselves...

[Cap'n Ken]

It's not like trying to appeal to the mainstream is unique, at all. The Tea Party have done that kind of thing. I think what the Occupiers are going for is the "we may think differently, but we are really no different than you" aspect. Are they seeking power, or seeking to REDUCE power?

I LOL'ed.

No, the masses gathered out in parks by and large probably do figure they're working for some kind of power-lacking Utopian wonderland. But if and when some people step forward as the drivers of the "movement", if they don't begin consumed by the quest for power, they will end that way.

[Kevy Duty]

Occupy Atlanta has office space at 60 Walton St., they're set up at Woodruff Park,and they're asking people to join them there.

Isn't it still illegal to ask for change in Woodruff Park?

[Gmoney]

 

Occupy Atlanta has office space at 60 Walton St., they're set up at Woodruff Park,and they're asking people to join them there.

Isn't it still illegal to ask for change in Woodruff Park?

[Cap'n Ken]

Occupy Atlanta has office space at 60 Walton St., they're set up at Woodruff Park,and they're asking people to join them there.

Isn't it still illegal to ask for change in Woodruff Park?

It's no longer Woodruff Park, according to the "movement". It's now Troy Davis Park. Because they have the power!*






*except they don't. But let's not get technical. 

[JBB]

Occupy Atlanta has office space at 60 Walton St., they're set up at Woodruff Park,and they're asking people to join them there.

Isn't it still illegal to ask for change in Woodruff Park?

brilliance!